Polynesian Navigators with Laura Overton and Michelle Ockers

Does L&D know where it’s going?

What separates the L&D functions that genuinely move organisations forward from those that stay busy but never quite shift the dial? That question has driven Laura Overton‘s research for over two decades — and it sits at the heart of The L&D Leader, the new book she co-authored with Michelle Ockers. Their answer, drawn from more than ten thousand L&D professionals and two hundred learning leaders, points not to new tools or models, but to something older and harder to teach: the ability to read the organisation, sense its currents, and navigate your own way to somewhere that matters.

In this episode John talks with Laura and Michelle about the ideas behind the book, which opens with the extraordinary story of the ancient Polynesian navigators — people who crossed 2,500 miles of open ocean without a compass or a clock. They discuss the lasting legacy of the pandemic for L&D, why two decades of research on workplace learning strategy show surprisingly little change in how most functions operate, and the risk that chasing the latest tool or model is actually damaging L&D’s ability to drive real value.

And then there’s the question that sits underneath all the talk of L&D maturity and business alignment: when we talk about driving value through learning, who exactly is that value for?

The episode is published on the Learning Hack website where you can also find links to all the popular podcast platforms.